The Three Sided Conflict

The Three Sided Conflict

May 11, 2024

Explaining what is really going on in the world.

I recently read a piece from one of my fellow bloggers, which was of sufficient salience for me to crosspost. The title is “Liberals joined conservatives to mainstream anti-vax beliefs about viruses and public health” Find it here.

She outlines how the two main factions in capitalism have done with the pandemic what they usually do with important governmental issues. They find some compromise to allow them to further their common ends, so they can continue their conflicts in such a way as not to empower the third side of the conflict, the public interest. This fits well with an idea about the pandemic which I have been developing for some time.

I have blogged previously on this theme but I am not going to link back to it. I will take down the out of date stuff and incorporate the main points into this essay. I hope this new piece succeeds in breaking my shadow ban because it makes a very good point.

Of course, the point needs to be expanded well beyond the pandemic to all aspects of modern life. The conflict has been developing for a long time, but is coming to a head in the turbulent twenties. This is the fight between industrial capitalism, financial capitalism, and society.

I also find it interesting that Leninist, Anarchist, and other “storm the Bastille” types have noticed in recent years that the ruling elite is not a unitary monolith. A book is coming out next month, full of essays on the “three way fight” and “revolutionary politics and Antifascism.” I am curious to learn what the word “Kerseplebedeb” means, and I am likely to review the book on this blog.

It seems these “antifascist” types have noticed that the fascists are not simply a tool and creation of capitalism. They also imagine that fascists are also fighting against capitalism. This is really nothing new and shows how epistemically confused almost all opponents of capitalism are.

This essay is a try at explaining rightly what is fascism, what is naziism, and what is socialism. Then, how these tie to industrial capitalism, financial capitalism, and the public interest. Then, how these tie to nationalism, globalism, and Human Society.

The first believes infinite economic expansion is possible. The second wants economic activity reduced so nothing ever emerges to threaten their dominance. The third would simply like an economy which provides enough for everyone’s needs, with no shortages and no waste, either.

All very short and simple.


Now, back to Double Trouble Julia and how this applies specifically to the pandemic. Said she; Liberals and Conservatives, as she calls what are in fact the Globalists and the Industrialists, have argued fiercely about how to deal with the covid pandemic. Yet they agree on the main object; to create a “herd immunity” so everything could go back to being as before.

Conservatives/Industrialists/fascists want to achieve herd immunity by letting everyone get the virus, so that “the weak” would be ‘culled’, the ‘strong’ would become immune, and we could all get back to business. Fascists are always hung up about “the weak”, meaning the old, sick, and disabled, who do not ‘produce’ anything for them. They hate public health systems, which cost a lot of money just to provide to all people the health services which should be reserved only for ‘high value’ people.

The Liberals/ Globalists/Latent Nazis want herd immunity achieved through vaccination. These people are always hung up on technological quick fixes. They also have a more complex view of the Human Herd, but generally would like it to be much reduced, preserving only those parts which specifically service them.

Thus, these two tendencies are alike in that they do not want any change or enhancement of public health measures. One thinks this might reduce economic performance, impair their control of their work force, and increase the costs of the health system. The other has the Malthusian mentality that disease is needed to keep population in check.

These are both very delusional and so they entertain the notion of “herd immunity”. However, this does not work with Flu or Sars/covid types of viruses because they mutate too fast. Sars/Covid viruses create a very large and long ‘tail’ of post infection complications, which sharply reduce the quality and quantity of the work force. Evidence has been growing for some time that Flu viruses also have ‘long tail’ effects, and they are now implicated in the spread of many types of debilitating diseases.

I want to avoid turning this into an essay on public health measures needed to combat covid. I will do that elsewhere. Basically, curbing covid requires changes to the way things are done. Specifically, cleaning up indoor air, allowing people to stay home when sick, and requiring common compliance with common sense things like vaccination and masking in high risk areas.


The industrial capitalists/fascists have deployed their growing political machine to attack, disrupt, and discredit public health. But beyond that they are looking to displace the globalists, the financial capitalists, as the dominant power in the Atlanticist world. That means, the ‘Atlantisphere,’ the lands around the North Atlantic which have ruled the earth for several centuries, spreading capitalism and industrialism.

The quick history lesson is that imperialism, the building of colonial empires, has been done by financial capitalists, through their control of banks and the issuance of money. These have ruled most of western society for about three centuries. The industrial side of the oligarchy, and the civil societies of these countries, have benefited greatly from imperialism but have always resisted the financialists.

The industrial oligarchy, those creating wealth from owning means of production and exploiting labor, are of course much more nationally based. They do not want anything which interferes with their control over the population, which they see as their workforce, which they have the right to use and manage.

Civil society is, of course, everybody else. The wealth created by these capitalist classes has created a ‘middle class’, really a ‘high value’ workforce, with some clout. It can organize to insure that things are run so they can live decently, have good health care, and educate the next generations.

So, as technological advance has lead to increasing productivity over the past centuries, politics has mostly been a three way fight between these forces. However, it is the financialists who always have the edge and have usually, largely, been in control.

At times, such as the ‘golden thirty’, the years of the post world war two era, these three forces have been somewhat balanced out. These have been good times of social progress for the populations of Atlanticist countries.

At some times and in some places, the other sides of this triangle have asserted control. When industrialists/nationalists get control, it is through creating types of political movements usually called Fascist. They are always incapable of governing and soon fall.

At times, socialists, groups claiming to be fighting for society, for the actual people in it, have gained control. There is a conceit among Fascists that socialists are really created by the financial capitalists. Financialists do try to control socialist movements from within, but there is a long history of them losing control.

A socialist country is one where the government really serves the interests of the country and people, where civil society really is in control. Usually it takes a long time for such governments to become established, and to work out a viable economic and social system. Many are now becoming successful, which is a big cause of the decline of the Atlantic hegemony.

This is the historic moment we are living in. As Atlanticist power fades away in the world, states run on socialist principles are rising. Unfortunately, a lot of Fascist type states are also using this opportunity to rise.

In the Atlantic countries, such as Canada, industrial interests are building Fascist type movements. They are looking to take power away from the Financialists. As Fascists always do, they see themselves as anticapitalist, rather than the hard edge of a different capitalist faction.

In the Atlantic countries, socialist movements have been thoroughly suppressed or coopted by the Financialists/Globalists. Real socialist movements are starting to reconstitute themselves, but it will take some time for them to become effective. Meanwhile, the Globalists are doing what they do when under threat, transform their controlled socialist groups into Nazi type movements.


Now, to explain the difference between Fascists and Nazis. Superficially, they look similar. There is always a lot of crossover of ideological tropes and methods. However, they are created by different oligarchic factions from different materials, to serve different purposes.

The Fascist type, even if they are not called Fascist, is propagated by industrial capitalists. This is always in response to a threat to their sense of control over the government and their “labor force”. The purpose of Fascists is to attack whatever is seen as the threat to this power.

Fascism is always highly nationalistic because most industry is nationally based. Industrial capitalism requires a national government to protect its interests. Fascism is always threatened by Globalism and usually confuses it with Socialism, and both with Communism.

Contrary to the way Fascism is portrayed in Liberal media and thinking, Fascism is not aggressively militaristic. Industrialists know that war could destroy their wealth. They do warfare only when there is minimal risk and enough money to be made at it.

A Nazi type of movement, usually not called Nazi, is created by Financial Capitalism. This is what also creates globalism, liberalism, imperialism, and ecological extremism. Nazi movements are tools against whatever is interfering with globalist hegemony; Socialism, Fascism, or just independent national states.

Naziism uses nationalistic rhetoric to create fear in opponents, and to stir up support for war. It is not really nationalistic but is very warlike. Unlike Industrialists, Financialists usually see no downside to war.

The Nazi style is based more on racial or cultural superiority. To explain; the Hitler Nazis were not really that interested in German nationality. They were hung up on their idea of the “Aryan race”, which included most ‘Caucasoid’ people. They wanted to develop a union of such people in order to dominate the globe and subjugate, and gradually eliminate, the ‘inferior races’.

People are often puzzled as to why the Nazis did not include Slavic people with the “Aryans”. Slavs tend to have blonde hair and blue eyes, but Hitler wanted to wipe them out and settle Germans on their land. The truth is that “Aryan” was/is mostly a political construction. Slavs of that time were mostly under governments acting independently of the Globalists, so there had to be a justification for destroying them.

A little understood feature of Nazi type movements is that they usually start out as ‘left’ groups, which are captured and moved to the far right. There is a reason the Nazi party had ‘Socialist’ in its full name. There is a reason why people who call themselves ‘Antifa’ are acting worse than the Fascists. People who have presented themselves as ‘left’ are now screaming for the annihilation of Palestinians.

The financial capitalists like to back both sides of every argument. They create fake Socialist groups like the Fabians. There are certain types of political people who really just want a leader to follow, and to be seen as ‘virtuous’. They can easily be switched from social to Nazi.

Another feature of Nazi groups is that they tend to get out of control of their creators. Usually, the globalists can find a way to turn this to their advantage. For example, the allied campaign in the second world war was not against Naziism, but against Hitler. As soon as he was gone, the Globalists found the people who had been formed by Naziism to be very useful.

Given the above information, readers may want to look again at what different contemporary right wing political movements, and some apparently ‘left’ movements, are really about. You may also question what present day geopolitical conflict is all about. You could even go back to world war two, and ask whether this helps to explain the many things about the accepted history of that conflict which do not add up.


The import of all this for public health proponents is that the opponents of public health really mean it. The right wing want the weaklings, the old, the useless, to be killed off by disease. Vaccines are in the way of that.

Liberals try to pose as the reasonable people, the stabilizing influence on society. In many ways they are the worst kind of fanatics and are always another front for financial capitalism. It is actually quite natural that they would push the “vaccines only” side of the strategy of disruption against pandemic measures.

The fake socialists will push pretty much the same stance. A mark of the real socialists is that they advocate a vigorous and scientifically grounded approach to public health. They listen to properly qualified experts, those who have been seen to be getting it right.

The countries which are run on practical Socialist principles have been fairly successful at controlling covid. It is largely a matter of simply allowing people to stay home when they are ill, without loss of income or other repurcussions. It is a matter of giving people the right information about how to protect themselves, and refusing to tolerate misinformation and malinformation.

In countries still under capitalist rule, especially the Atlanticist countries like Canada, the approach of fans of public health can only be to align with authentic Socialist groups. These are the ones seriously working to replace capitalism. This is the only thing which will finally eradicate covid and all airborne disease in our countries.


Now to how one identifies this thing called authentic socialism. This is something the revolutionary politicians need to pay attention to. There is always a huge effort to coopt or suppress anticapitalist movements, using “flood the zone” methods.

The sign of an authentic socialist movement is that it talks about what is important to real people. Usually this is anathema to fake socialists and liberals. Mass immigration damages society. Global warming is malinformation intended to panic countries into deindustrializing.

Publics will be responsive to public health and pandemic response measures when they are run properly, explained consistently and clearly, and not repressive. People want government to protect them. They do not want government to lie to them.

It is a very old principle of political science that when people lose trust in government, they look for a competent left movement to lead change. When one is not there, a Fascist type of organization is always there to delude them. The people’s anger and confusion is turned against them.

What concerns me about the book I referred to at the beginning is that the authors may have the idea that left/anticapitalist organizations could ally with the rising fascist groups in America to over throw capitalism. To most of these people, this means financial capitalism. Many of them think that someone ranting about financial oligopolies and globalist institutions is thus an anticapitalist.

So I decline to name the book’s title or discuss it until I have had a chance to read it, when it is released later this month. I am likely to write a review of it when I am done, one way or another. It is a very critical topic.

Left organizations making strategic alliances with Fascistic organizations has a long history. It has never ended well. Right wing organizations may collaborate with left groups, but when a real danger emerges of a socialist government creating an effective socialized economy, Industrialists and Financialists will unite against it.

But to conclude, it is encouraging that more people are thinking about the present day crisis in this way. I could say much about how the third side of the triangle must coalesce, and the strategies to use to create socialization. But that is for a future blog.

For now, while the two main factions of capitalism slug it out with each other, they continue to hammer the population from opposite directions. One side wants to reduce economic activity and employment. The other wants people to work ever harder.

In terms of pandemic measures, one side wants to use disease to shrink the population and reduce the productive capacity of those who remain. The other assumes that disease will merely eliminate the ‘useless eaters’. They seem unable to believe that uncontrolled disease will degrade the size and productivity of even the ‘high value’ part of the workforce.

All I can say to public health and pandemic control advocates in the Atlanticist countries is; the real plague is capitalist oligarchy, in all its flavours. Little can be done until it is replaced. Until then, we can only communicate to those we can get through to, about how best to protect themselves.